Nick Clegg's Interview transcript on World at One Today.

The topic being snooping legislation.....

Martha Kearney:  Well just before we came on air I spoke to the Deputy Prime Minister himself, Nick Clegg, and asked why he thought there was a need for a change in the legislation.

Nick Clegg (Deputy Prime Minister):  I think it’s very important that people kind of hold off in making their judgements until they actually see the proposals. There’s been a lot of kind of speculation, some of it inaccurate, over the last couple of days about what these proposals may or may not contain.

I so happen to think that it is right to have a debate about what we do as a society as criminals, particularly serious criminals, criminal gangs, exploit new technologies.  What kind of powers should we be giving to the Police so that they can go after criminals as they populate these new technologies? 

And, and I think it, you know, it’s important that people should be reassured that we as a Government are not going to ram something through parliament.  We will make sure people are consulted, not only examining the new proposals but whether existing powers are sufficient as they are. 

And all along I will be guided and the Government will be guided by some very simple principles.  That any change will have to be proportionate, it can not lead to the creation of a new Government data base, it can not give the Police new powers to look at the content of people’s emails and that, essentially, what we’re talking about is whether the powers of the Police need to be updated to keep pace with the use of new technologies.

MK:  But the idea of extending the amount of communications data which is held at the moment is already meeting with some opposition.  We’ve talked to the former head of ACPO today, the former Chief Constable Sir Chris Fox and he said he thinks these ideas are fraught with danger for the innocent.

NC:  Oh I think any thing in this area is, is highly sensitive.  I think it’s a, as I say it’s a good thing we’re having this kind of lively debate.  I, I’d like us to have this debate again when the actual proposals are, are published and, you know, they’ll be published in draft form so they can be subject to proper scrutiny and examination and properly stress tested.

MK:  But you’re in a position aren’t you to influence (indistinct) proposals at the moment because you’re …

NC:  Yes …

MK:  … Deputy Prime Minister and …

NC:  … no exactly and what I …

MK:  … and the Liberal Democrat Manifesto said that there should be and end to plans to store your emails and internet records without good cause.

NC:  … exactly, exactly.  What we, what we were against in opposition was the creation of a Government data base which had a real sort of Orwellian air about it.  What these proposals are all about is essentially this …

MK:  Well this is a, this is a different data base …

NC:  … no …

MK:  … isn’t it?  This is a data base being held by the companies themselves …

NC:  … well I can just explain …

MK:  … but the Government …

NC:  … if I, if I could …

MK:  … will, agencies …

NC:  … just explain …

MK:  … will have access to it.

NC:  … if I could just explain.  Under existing powers the Police are able to identify who has made a call, where and when but the fact is that because technology has changed increasingly people are using different means by which they communicate with each other.  So, you know, there are new means like Skype for instance where people are using what, what’s called voice over IP, voice, voice calls over the internet, where because, under the existing powers the Police are not able to identify calls made when then they’re made, who they’re made and what the number is because they don’t have the powers to do so.

So there’s a, there’s a basic technological dilemma there which is …

MK:  Sure and I understand that but it’s not just the Police who has access to this data is it?  At the moment it’s local authorities, the Fire Brigade, there were half a million requests in 2010 for this kind of data …

NC:  No that’s a different …

MK:  … and you’re extending it.

NC:  … that’s a, that’s a slightly different issue.  There are as you know powers under the, under the RIPA Act and in effect what we’re saying is there’s a question, it’s an exam question if you like which we, which we all have to face and have to confront which is given that it is now possible to communicate, for people to communicate with each other using different routes do we need to update and modernise the powers that already exist on the statute book …

MK:  I understand that and …

NC:  … to reflect that change in …

MK:  … and …

NC:  … in, to reflect that change in technology.  Whilst making sure …

MK:  … but in, in the course of this modernisation …

NC:  … that the safeguards, the safeguards …

MK:  … just …

NC:  … not least for privacy and civil liberties are absolutely, are absolutely guaranteed.

MK:  But in the course of that modernisation will it solely be the Police who are going to have the powers?

NC:  Well as I say we haven’t published the proposals yet, we’ll publish them in draft, but this is essentially about how you go after criminals and terrorists.  So clearly the people who are most, most involved in this are the Police and, of course, you can not do any of this without making sure, and this is something my party debated just recently at our recent party conference in Gateshead, without ensuring that there are safeguards, that there are safeguards which guarantee people’s privacy, guarantee our, our hard fought civil liberties. That’s something …

MK:  But you see …

NC:  … I personally believe in very passionately indeed.

MK:  … these safeguards are very difficult though to actually bring in to force and you’re, you’re right I think your activists are very worried about this.  Because at the moment it’s self authorising so if a Police Detective wants to have access to the data he just goes to somebody else in his own force, there’s no outside force, you don’t have to get a warrant or anything.  So what …

NC:  No you do need, you do need a warrant …

MK:  … kind of new safe …

NC:  … if you’re, if you’re …

MK:  … for content …

NC:  … after content.

MK:  … for content but you can learn a lot about somebody just from the records of their mobile phone calls and their emails without looking at the content.  And as I say it’s self authorising, there isn’t an outside voice, breath of fresh air, to keep an eye on what’s going on.  Is that likely to change, is that a safeguard you’ll bring in?

NC:  Well we, we’re prepared to look at any safeguards which will make sure that people feel comforted that these proposals are not the draconian proposals that they have been portrayed as being. That they are trying to deal with a simple, pragmatic issue and it’s one that, you know, in a sense one can’t simply ignore or duck which is that there are new forms of technology which enable criminal gangs and terrorists and others to communicate with each, with each other which are not captured in existing statute.

MK:  And what I think your activists and your own MPs many of them would like to know is what, what kind of safeguards will you personally be arguing for behind the scenes in Government?

NC:  Well clearly the highest possible safeguards …

MK:  So warrants?

NC:  … what I can’t do, what I can’t do on a lunchtime radio programme is tell you what those are in detail because the proposals haven’t been published yet.  I am absolutely clear as Deputy Prime Minister and someone who cares passionately about civil liberties as the Leader of the Liberal Democrats that we will not return to the bad old days under the Labour Party.  This will be an open, consultative and properly scrutinised process.

MK:  The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.